I respectfully disagree with you. Alternatively, I think many times Christians
are much too complacent in their response to attacks on our faith
and worldview. I am passionate, but not hateful. My contention is that
Deepak’s message is both antagonistic to Christian values and ultimately
has life and death consequences.
Your last sentence doesn’t resonate with me. It oversimplifies the
whole “what is love, what is hate” debate, which is what I’m used to getting
from them.

I’m having difficulty understanding your sentence:
“But If you believe that faith Jesus Christ is the
only way you can approach the throne of God and hold to a worldview
that is consistent with that notion and the rest of the Truth as revealed in
His Word than you have a problem.”

I do believe the ONLY way to enter heaven is through Jesus.
But, I do not believe the only way to reach out to others who
may perhaps be travelling the wrong way on the road to salvation
is by attacking them.

I have never condemned your views or, in fact, Dr. Chopra’s,
I have simply provided an alternate viewpoint. No one can
force anyone to accept their views, and beating them in
the head with a Bible will only make them resent your
best meant efforts. All we, as Christians, may do is provide
an alternative to sin and hopelessness, profess His Good News,
and pray that others may accept Him. I am no saint, nor am I a
prophet, or any kind of holy man at all, I am a sinner, but I do
believe, and as a follower of Christ, I attempt to share
His LOVE with others. I appreciate your views, but I do believe
you might be more successful if you coated your message with
a bit more love and a little less hate.

http://www.aimath.org/E8/

Thanks for the beauty we can experience in every cell
of our body, in every grain of sand, in every snowflake and
in every drop of water, while at the same time being the sea…
all of Us, together.

Jesus obviously could care less about political parties… But he does care
and have a very narrow (in fact concise) definition of good and evil. I for one
am not “divided” by labels.. But If you believe that faith Jesus Christ is the
only way you can approach the throne of God and hold to a worldview
that is consistent with that notion and the rest of the Truth as revealed in
His Word than you have a problem.

It’s not enough just to seek common ground with people. There are too many
bad consequences to have that be your ultimate focus….

Just for a second, let’s review your commonalities:
1) You all appear to love your fellow man
2) You all appear to recognize Jesus as the Son of God
3) You all want what is best for others

Ok. Now, I’m not calling for a group-hug or anything, but,
let’s put down the swords for a bit and quit swinging at
eachother. Y’all are exerting an awful lot of energy
trying to make someone else see things 100%
YOUR way. Why not take that same energy and
spend it on reaching out to people who currently see
it 0% of your way. I’d say y’all are a lot closer to
meeting God’s requirements for redemption than
some poor single woman who is prostituting herself on
the street corner trying to feed her three kids she had
(instead of having an abortion). Let’s focus on what is
REAL and on what we can CHANGE to make this world
better TODAY. Quit typing and DO SOMETHING POSITIVE.
Go find someone who is far from God and bring them closer.
Peace, love and happiness 🙂
John

No. not the paranoia.

It appears you’re here to be entertained.

I wish you well with your next name change.

And I hope you eventually have an
original thought.

Good luck on your journey.

Webster, you seem to have everyone packed neatly in a box.
Since your so down on conservatives, why is it they are responsible
for the lions share of charitable giving in this country and around the world.
I will guarantee you that the average Christian gave more by percentage and
probably value than the Obamas gave before they decided it might come
under scrutiny, I know I did.
My issue is with Big Brother deciding on where my charitable giving will go,
funding abortion, my neighbor kids daycare and then college…. I can accept
disagreement on the role of government, but the hypocrisy kills me…. Let’s
call it like it is shall we?
——————————–
ok, let’s call it like it is….

We’ve been working on getting a food
bank up and running to it’s full
potential where I live. The unemployment
rate here is now above 11%. The food
banks in the larger communities are
“stressed out” by the need, and have
been since gas prices soared to 4 bucks
a gallon last year.

As Obama said before taking the oath of
office, “It’s going to get worse before it
gets better.”

So, an invite was made to the County GOP to
join us, for a few reasons. One reason was
the additional manpower. It’s a big project.
Another was (I’m using the term was for a reason)
the affiliations they have with business in the
surrounding communities. Contributors. And the
third was, if competing ideals could work together
for a common cause, at the grass roots level, it
might just send a message to our elected
representatives in D.C.. Message being- If we can
do it, so can you.

Well, turns out your party members take a “loyalty
oath” upon joining, which prohibited them from
participating with ours. Insightful? Medieval, for sure.

We’re going to get it accomplished anyway. Who else is
going to do it?

The point of the story is, your efforts here are in
lockstep (goosestep?) with the conservative ideology you
espouse. Unfortunately, for those who have
suffered the most from the ideology (the one’s
who are not Christian conservatives, and probably
never will be after the last 8 years), there is still
a need. Such wondrous fruits your trees bear….

Look around.

So I say to you and your fellow
conservatives….

In the last 40 years (since Johnson) we’ve
had 29-30 years of Republican administrations.
and 12 years of Democratic administrations. Just
for grins and giggles, let’s equate this to a
3 to 1 ratio.

Which party’s ideology has had the most
influence on where we are today, or, the lion’s share,
as you so covetously pointed out?

Well done.

At least you’re consistent.

Wanna talk about global warming?

Just so you know.

Conservative posh is generally not about
the humanistic perspective….

People on…the right of center, are interested
in property values, property, property rights.
The rights and the rights of property. And
power-brokering religious beliefs, through
a fear-based lens, to “insure them.”.

This dialogue started when Erol mentioned that I should have compassion.

I responded that I do, for the lives of unborn children. It’s interesting

that I did not mention faith or religion in my initial post, it is you folks who

brought it in to the argument. I id so because I knew that you folks do not

consider the Bible the final destination for Truth. For that reason I argued

from a humanistic perspective.

Yest we can and we are doing it!!

And not through big organizations anymore that got inundated nowadays by
so many internal rules that they have made themselves incapable.

But by personal action, one man and one woman at the time.

Personal projects for a good cause. If you look around you can
find plenty.

Let yourself get inspired by the creativity inside you and by
that of others of which you can find so many examples
around you and on the Internet.

If each of us has the intention, all of us CAN do it!

“Webster, I never suggested that you take instruction from
the Catholic church or any other.
For the record, I recommend you take your instruction from
the Bible.
You guys seem to want to take shelter in discrediting the Catholic
church???
I’m not referring here to any church’s dogma. I refer only to
God’s word and your own reasoning.”

Catchme….

Why would I take your recommendation?
You’re blindly espousing beliefs, which were
handed to you, and assumptions about those
who do not share your beliefs. Which, again,
were handed to you.

No Thanks. I have eyes to see. All I have to do
is look around to see the fruits of what you
deem worthy. (See above post)

Look around

Nothing Christ-like about their
interpretations, for sure. All we
have to do is look around. Their
inability to discern even the simplest
teachings of Christ, and apply them,
has revealed them.

And that’s as it should be.

Keep writing!

The balance of body, mind, and
spirit, coupled with experiential
knowledge will transform a world.

peace

Unfortunately so many have reaped the sour fruits.
Here lies a task for every men and woman to
be the change in this direction.

Giving good education in the world we are
living in today has to include both prevention
and healing.

Giving people the tools in every aspect of
society is necessary but at this moment
especially in their basic needs (food and shelter)
and being able to live in good health.

We are lucky as humanity that we have the Internet
nowadays.

It enables us to share our views and get educated in
a way that makes one responsible for one’s actions,
towards oneself and towards the other.

And in this way empower every human being on earth!

To be healthy, happy and creative in their life!

I really enjoyed reading your
above post this morning.

Insightful.

And regarding the Catholics – which
I was until I reached the age of
reason…

When I hear that the Pope and some
of his “holy” friends have experienced
their first pregnancies and labor pains,
and raised a family of 6-8 kids on a wage
of $2.00 a day, as they’ve instructed those
in third-world countries to do, I’ll be glad to
listen to what they have to say about
abortion.

Maybe.

The answer to your question
is within.

“Mieke, since when does a doctor have any more say on questions of morality?”

Well, my answer is more one from my experience and the way a doctor in my
days,after studying medicine, took a sacred oath to give healthcare in the
best of his/her ability to serve humanity.

Something in the same line as priests: they also took an oath in serving
humanity. But lived in another reality.

Difference to me is: the priests told humanity what to do and what not to do,
if you didn’t do it their way, there was the threath of hell.
And moreover they didn’t know a single thing about a married life.

Doctors really knew reality, real life because they stood with their two
feet in the middle of it. They helped women to give birth, they gave
healthcare to both women and child.

Doctors went on studying on how they could really help men and
women to prevent such a horrible thing as abortion and were
there too for a woman when this was unavoidable for one reason
or another.

Doctors and nurses in my time took initiatives to educate men
and women about their sexual behaviour. And about ways to
live a healthy life and be responsible oneself for that.

Not to tell them what they could or could not do.
Not to threaten them in one way or the other.
But to give them choices!!
To help them in how to handle difficult health problems
and even how to deal with moral problems.

And why, because church and its priests only told
people to have as many children as they could
and if not, hell was the result.

Not knowing that they created in this way hell
for men and women on earth.

Because of all this and because of the fact
that I learnt to think and live for myself
I am living in a heaven on earth.

I am radiating this to my environment
My environment is changing because of this.

I am helping people by just being my own
self, peaceful, helpful, loving and happy.

I wish you much love, peace in yourself, forgiveness
to yourself and I am praying for you to be happy.

What point is “misguided”?

I know which world I want to live in.”

The world where one keeps having to
change their screen-name to get
“their” misguided point across?

You’re a strange one, catchme.

Webster, for the record I have known many in the church to have given a name to
their miscarried children and have a service for them.

Not the point I was making, catchme.

It was more about the church being
involved when it happens.

I’ve known people who have actually
had it happen to them. They’ve maybe
been advised about counseling.

The service was their idea.

I vehemently disagree with all of you. God is the giver of life, he alone
(not women, not men) decides the circumstances as to when it can be taken.

Mieke, since when does a doctor have any more say on questions of morality?
In almost all cases it becomes a selfish decision. I’m not ready to have a child,
My finances aren’t in order, I was raped and therefore this child will forever
remind me of that terrible event…. All selfish decisions. Thousands of adoptive
parents are desperately waiting to adopt these children.

God bless the wife of my four children. She has told me that if she was raped
we would raise that child to be a blessing. That is virtue, quite a departure from
from the alternative, aye?

Think about it, which example makes the world a better place? The one where
a person finds there self worth in serving their Father in heaven? Or the life
lived seeking to satisfy the self….. In this case, even to the extent of taking the
life of another.
This is a classic example of the divide between worldviews. You all are
running off on rabbit trails, to justify it.

The nurturers will heal the planet Webster. But they won’t be those who nurture
the self. It will be those who sacrifice the self for the sake of others. That is what
the God of Creation asks of his people…. After all He has set the supreme
example of sacrificing His Son.

I know which world I want to live in.

My mother made sure I would before she left
this plane. 🙂

The nurturers will heal the planet,
and its people..

They’re ahead of the curve with the
balanced left and right brain, and
WAAAAY ahead with the balance of
mind and heart.

Rock on.

Hereunder a more readable last part of my previous comment:

Because of this struggle, we women have become much more united
than men will ever be able to be.

And indeed, we women give birth to both men and women and so know
more about solidarity than any man.

So government will have to change and allow more and more women into it.
So that more balance can be reached in every part of society,

Government is a good thing as long as it performs the will of the people.
And the will of the people is a balance of 50% male and 50% female.

And if that is accomplished democracy may perhaps become a real way of
living together in peace.

You had two rights as a catholic housewife: one was the kitchen and the other
was giving birth to your husband’s children.

And that was it. You had to obey your husband and his will was the law.
And this was imposed by the church. So it was a dogma.

But in Europe the generation that was born after the war did not take this anymore.
Slowly but surely women have changed society and nowadays almost half of the
European parliament consists of women.

I understand that recently the church has changed this dogma a bit and
admits now that men and women are equal human beings who complement
each other.

But it took a long time. Only the Virgin Mary was accepted in the Church.
Everyone woman who dared to differ from opinion was not accepted.

But it is the result of the struggle of women to set themselves free by themselves
that made the Church change its mind at least to the equality of men and women.

Because of this struggle, we women have become much more united than men
will ever be able to be.

And indeed, we women give birth to both men and women and so know more about solidarity than any man.

So government will have to change and allow more and more women into it. So that more balance can be reached in every part of society,

Government is a good thing as long as it performs the will of the people.
And the will of the people is a balance of 50% male and 50% female.

And if that is accomplished democracy may perhaps become a real way of living together in peace.

The groves were God’s first temples….

Ah-Women
Ah-Men

In the second place it is a discussion between the woman
and her doctor and no one else.

In the third place it relates back to the women’s issue and
it is a decision that she, and she alone can make within
her own consciousness and no one is allowed to judge
her decision.

But women never have been allowed to be a normal person
within the church.

We just were forced to take that right into our own hands.
And it is this very church that has caused it all with its
dogma’s.

NOT Jesus! He is a total different story.

I’ve never understood why men take
it upon themselves to tell women how things
are going to be.

They’ll insist on lethal injection for another,
or to fry someone in an electric chair, or
kill someone in the name of country, and their
position is justified. If some of these guys
would use the same “judgement” before they
act, the world may be a little saner place.

The truth is, they stop caring about a fetus
after it is born, until it reaches the age of 18.
Then they can send it off to war.

Where is this “wise compassion” when an
abortion clinic gets bombed, and a doctor is
killed?

It’s a woman’s issue.

I’m confident the majority of women
have looked at it from all angles before
acting. This is not based on an opinion.

Pretty good example of why
religious people are dangerous, too.
Especially the men.

First of all I have dealt with it on a very personal level.

Secondly, it is much simpler than that.

If it is true that the embryo, fetus, etc. is a human life, than I can
judge it. God has given us the obligation to speak and act for the the oppressed.
The Constitution of this country, guarantees us “The right to life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness” Many people think this issue can be reduced to
a political viewpoint. It’s not about politics, its about right and wrong.

It’s not that a man and women do not have a choice along the way.
They had their opportunity to choose. After the decision is made and
a new life is the result. The new life takes precedence over all else.

We have laws in this country that recognize the fetus as an person in the
case of the murder or manslaughter of a pregnant women. This obviously
exposes a conflict in application.

We’ve had legal cases in this country where Doctors were tried criminally
for not trying to save a live born child that survived a botched abortion.

Mieke, one can argue all the difficult situations that bring about the need to
abort a life. The botttom line is you can never forget that you are talking about
a life! In that context, only the life of a mother can take precedence. The
problem is that once this country started down this “slippery slope”.
The laws have been increasingly liberalized.

The problem you mention hereabove is indeed a really serious one.
It has many angles from which it can be observed. You cannot
just condemn it or judge it.

Lots of different circumstances play a role here.

I believe the only solution is education, good information, guidance and
offering alternatives. We live in a society with many (scientifical) alternatives
for this problem and to me preventing is always better than healing.

If you feel that strong about this issue, you may be the right person
to set up such an educational centre in your part of the world.

I remember from my youth that we did have such an educational centre in our
country called the Dutch society for sexual reform and both women and man
were educated not only for themselves but also how they could educate their
children.
There are many many anti-conception possibilities these days.

You cannot simply condemn something before you really have been able
to replace yourself into the circumstances of the person who has to
deal with it.

Love,

Mieke

To me, recognizing that human life, so innocent, so defenseless are being
taken every day behind the walls and closed doors of clinics, safely
out of view does qualify. They never get a name, a gravestone, or even a mention
in the obituary column… their are known only to God…. I grieve for them Erol.

For some reason I can not explain or fathom, others, even many, could care
less…It’s crazy to me, and should reveal to us all that there is something
terribly amiss in our culture, shouldn’t it?

Jesus didn’t attack the evil doers of the day, the Pharisees?

There are many examples of Jesus expressing righteous anger in the Bible.

Hypocrisy was one of the main reasons, and the “religion of the day”
being practiced by the Pharisees was one of his frequent targets.

I will be the first to admit my shortcomings… For it is for them that I cling
to Christ… Far be it from me to point out those of others.

However, Jesus defines right and wrong very clearly. He accepted the woman
at the well when he recognized her faith… But he didn’t leave it at that. He told
her her sins were forgiven but also “to go and sin no more”.

It is a different thing altogether to refute views in opposition to the Truth
as revealed in the Bible. Deepak, in my view is a dangerous man, leading
many astray by his teaching…. I think challenging his views is a worthwhile
exercise.

I would agree with your comments on changing the world, and I’m
working on it.

I am also compelled by my faith to provide a defense of the truth, spread
the good news in the hope that some will come to realize Christ
for who he is, the Savior, and to attempt to expose the dangers that
exist in opposing worldviews. As I’ve stated before, I am convinced that
they are responsible for 90% of the suffering in this world.

I’ve worked with many people in loss of a loved one. Often, I find a great conflict has them held. Conflict often between head & heart. Societal “norms” vs. a free heart. Notice her last sentence ‘nomal vs. free’. Our “buts” reveal our inner conflict. Conflict is duality, ego. Ego creates two ways, presents them to us so we’ll suffer in the ping pong match.

A process can be to fully journal about each way, as if that way were perfect. Follow one way through, embracing all positive intentions of that way. Give that way full voice, then do the same with the other. See the intended gift in each path and see that each eventually seeks the same: peace, love, freedom just by different paths.

After that, as the internal duality releases, invite the person’s spirit back in at our side, fully present to walk with us. THEY are not simply form, bones and meat.

Finally, we can note all the positive qualities of the loved one and relationship, and see those qualities sprinkled out in our future hidden in others. Never in the same combination which is the mystery of life.

Often there is process for heaing.

BTW Dale. Wow man, quite a hider eh? Maybe you’ve been blocked because you simply attack. It’s your way or no way. Watching The Passion of the Christ again last night, I’m reminded how the Pharasees condemned Jesus as working with the devil because he contradicted the current church. He challenged them to be loving instead of just preach and condemn. He “cherry picked” the Bible verses to show them the error of their ways.

Maybe you could offer words of compassion and wisdom as Jesus did, rather than attacks?

You really play a nice game of hide and seek with yourself 🙂

What are you so worried about?

There is a saying that goes around: “people suffer the most from the things they
fear that they will suffer from.”

All the time people are insulting one another, if you believe the papers, if you
believe what politicians say, if you believe what is said in a lot of programs on
television.

There is only one thing that is really true: if you want to improve the world,
you just start with yourself. Jesus has given you the full power to do so.
He suffered and died for your sins. That is a God given present and
the only thing you have to return to this fact is gratitude, gratitude
for being alive and make your own life as wonderful as you can.

You do not have to bother about other lives. If you are able to
live your own life with gratitude and dignity, you radiate this
to your environment and others will pick it up.

That’s all there really is to it.

Love and peace from

Mieke

“the phenomenon validates the biblical adage”…

Amazing huh? If you would open your eyes and take a hard look around you,
you will see a whole lot more of the Bible (God’s Word) being validated.

Your problem is that you are a “cherry picker”. You choose this and that from
different faiths and belief systems and put them all together to form a
nice sounding, pleasantly non-confrontational message. The problem
with that you leave behind the true message and intent of the author.
You take what you want and bastardize it into a message that all together
is in opposition and conflict with the original… To put it bluntly, this is wrong.
It is not only wrong it is anti-intellect, irrational and illogical.

I would pull another verse from the Bible that seems to describe you;

“professing to be wise, they have become fools”